ASCII by Jason Scott

Jason Scott's Weblog

FUCK THE CLOUD —

This will be the last time I go along this area of discussion for a while because it’s just going to get very old very quickly. But I wanted, in one place, a quick manifesto/rant about this position. So here we go.

FUCK THE CLOUD.

By the cloud, of course, I mean this idea that you have a local machine, a box running some OS, and a vital, distinct part of what you do and what you’re about or what you consider important to you is on other machines that you don’t run, don’t control, don’t buy, don’t administrate, and don’t really understand. These machines are connected via the internet, and if you have a company then these other machines are not machines run by your company, and if you’re a person they are giving it to you without you signing anything accompanied by cash or payment that says “and I mean it“.

Can I be clearer than that? It’s a sucker’s game. It’s a game suckers play. If you are playing it, you are a sucker.

The term, like many of its sort, has deep, deep roots in the industry that it’s being foisted upon. I’m in no mood to find specific citations today but you can be assured that the idea of a “cloud” to represent the outside network was on whiteboards that I saw working as a temp in NYNEX research labs in the late 1980s. And even by that date, it was an understood context, one going back years before.  (Terms I’ve seen retrofitted to give both the sense of timeliness and timelessness include zero-day, warez, and the war- prefix).

But this new round of it comes pre-packaged with marketer infestation. After all, it’s a great word: it insinuates soft fluffiness, a size and grandeur, and a fuzzy meaninglessness. So if you fail to deal with the underlying hard facts and cases, who can blame you? It’s a cloud. Soft, huggable cloud, I do love you and your rounded edges.

But what this all kind of hides is the situation of how you feel about stuff you generate.

Let me step aside and say that as a historian guy, I am big into collecting a lot of cast-offs. This is what I do. I’ve downloaded thousands of podcasts and millions of blog posts and a lot of other insane stupid stuff. We’ll get from that what we can, in the future. This is not about that.

This is about your data. This is about your work. This is about you using your time so that you make things and work on things and you trust a location to do “the rest” and guess what, here is what we have learned:

  • If you lose your shit, the technogeeks will not help you. They will giggle at you and make fun of your not understanding the fundamental principles and engineering of client-server models. This is kind of like firemen sitting around giggling at you because you weren’t aware of the inherent lightning-strike danger of improperly bonded CSST.
  • Since the dawn of time, companies have hired people whose entire job is to tell you everything is all right and you can completely trust them and the company is as stable as a rock, and to do so until they, themselves are fired because the company is out of business.
  • You are going to have to sit down and ask yourself some very tough questions because the time where you could get away without asking very tough questions with regard to your online presence and data are gone.

These questions that you have all work around that other overused word: value. To me, history guy, your old junk you used to do is of interest to me. But there’s a lot of people and a lot of stuff, so I wouldn’t want you to do it just for little ol’ me. But for yourself? What about yourself?

What of your work do you value? All of it? Likely not. The time you spend downloading a lot of porn, for example, is pretty cool, and if you lost all the porn, you’d probably be unhappy, but you could probably get the porn back or brand new porn that’s like porn 3.0 and new levels of porn. Probably the same for movies, for music – oh no, this data is gone, but why worry about it, you didn’t make the music or movies, so it’ll work itself out.

Less so the things you make: the writing, the linking of friends, the combined lists you collaborate on – maybe that has some value to you. When you die, of course, everyone else starts attaching arbitrary value to things you worked on or forgot about. A childhood photo of you has new meaning because the person the child became is gone. The essay you wrote in elementary school about being successful has more meaning because you turned out to be very successful. Again, this is value imposed from outside.

So what, then? What is really of meaning to you? Your twitters? Your weblog entries? Your list of bookmarks? Your photos? What?

Because if you’re not asking what stuff means anything to you, then you’re a sucker, ready to throw your stuff down at the nearest gaping hole that proclaims it is a free service (or ad-supported service), quietly flinging you past an End User License Agreement that indicates that, at the end of the day, you might as well as dragged all this stuff to the trash. If it goes, it’s gone.

There was a time when we gave the Cloud (before it was a Cloud) a big pass because technology was kind of neat and watching it all actually function is cool. I mean, if someone gives you an amazing Moon Laser and the Moon Laser lets you put words on the side of the moon, the fact that the Moon Laser’s effects wear off after a day or so isn’t that big a deal, and really, whatever you probably put on the side of the Moon with your Moon Laser is probably pretty shallow stuff along the lines of “WOW THIS IS COOL” and “FUCK MARS”. (Again, to belabor, a historian or anthropologist might be into what people, given their Moon Laser, chose to write, but that’s not your problem). Similarly so, with those early BBS writings, or the first web forums, or the first photo album sites, or the sites from 1993 and 1994. Interesting, neat, but your “work” among these halting baby steps isn’t causing you despair if it goes away. (And you’re pleasantly surprised when it shows up again, sometimes.)

Contrast, though, when people are dumping hundreds of hours a year into the Cloud. Blowing out photos. Entering day after day of entries. Sharing memories, talking about subjects that matter to them. Linking friends or commenting on statuses or trading twitters or what have you. This is a big piece, a very big piece of what is probably important stuff.

Don’t trust the Cloud to safekeep this stuff. Hell yeah, use the Cloud, blow whatever you want into the Cloud. The Internet’s a big copy machine, as they say. Blow copies into the Cloud. But please:

  • Don’t blow anything into the Cloud that you don’t have a personal copy of.
  • Insult, berate and make fun of any company that offers you something like a “sharing” site that makes you push stuff in that you can’t make copies out of or which you can’t export stuff out of. They will burble about technology issues. They are fucking lying. They might go off further about business models. They are fucking stupid. Make fun of these people, and their shitty little Cloud Cities running on low-grade cooking fat and dreams. They will die and they will take your stuff into the hole. Don’t let them.
  • Recognize a Cloud when you see it. Are you paying for these services? No? You are a sucker. You are giving people stuff for free. I pay for Vimeo and I pay for Flickr and a couple other things. This makes me a customer. Neither of these places get my only copy of anything.
  • If you want to take advantage of the froth, like with YouTube or so Google Video (oh wait! Google Video is going off the air!) then do so, but recognize that these are not Services. These are not dependable enterprises. These are parties. And parties are fun and parties are cool and you meet neat people at parties but parties are not a home.

So please, take my advice, as I go into other concentrated endeavors. Fuck the Cloud. Fuck it right in the ear. Trust it like you would trust a guy pulling up in a van offering a sweet deal on electronics. Maybe you’ll make out, maybe you won’t. But he ain’t necessarily going to be there tomorrow.

And that’s that.

Update:

I wrote this article in January of 2009. Naturally, people who make/made their living off of the concept of “The Cloud” had awesome opinions, some of them by phone. In response, I’ve written a number of follow up articles:

Dancing on Magnolia’s Grave: Fuck the Cloud II

Oh Boy, The Cloud

Outlook is Cloudy

Finally, people who go “wow, I don’t even care about this, I just like that you write long rants that drive people insane” should probably be directed to FaceFacts.


Categorised as: housecleaning | jason his own self

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157 Comments

  1. […] mi się cytat z Jasona Scotta, któryy warto mieć gdzieś z tyłu głowy: “These are not dependable enterprises. These are […]

  2. […] I only wish to remind you all that there’s no such thing as a free ride on these internets — for more on that I’ll direct you to Jason Scott’s excellent essay entitled: “FUCK THE CLOUD“. […]

  3. ASCII by Jason Scott / FUCK THE CLOUD…

    http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1717……

  4. Kral Oyunlar says:

    I have never been excited about “the cloud” (about as substantive a label as “web 2.0″) mainly because the protocols and methodology are not truly open and there is a very, very high level of complexity underlying products that should be as simple as possible.
    True.

  5. WD says:

    I personally appreciate the ease of use in cloud web2.0 applications. But I can see its black use and general open problems to data control. I assume when signing up to any intranet to be very careful about the amount of personal data that is published on the internet. I cant imagine anyone using payment processing on their website and would suggest using a payment gateway like google that has a team of people protecting it 24/7

  6. Loved this. The only ironic thing is that the chances are very high that this post itself has been bookmarked somewhere, creating a cloud presence for yourself. There’s really no escaping it anymore, seeing as how you are out of control of who links to you etc. For the personal details you are still pretty safe, as long as you don’t go spreading it yourself everywhere. But as far as your web presence goes it’s pretty much engulfed in the cloud from the moment you make your first post.

  7. […] FUCK THE CLOUD 111 comment(s) […]

  8. […] FUCK THE CLOUD 112 comment(s) […]

  9. […] Sidekick verliert alle seine Daten Cloud Probleme Doch ein Backup gefunden? Ja. Immer wieder lesenswert: FUCK THE CLOUD […]

  10. Frank, you have absolutley no fucking idea what cloud computing is

  11. […] Not so much. There’s a key buzzword here that you can take home: cloud computing. Like most buzzwords involved in this course, it’s being used to sell so much stuff that there is no longer any real fixed definition left… but the gist of it is that it marks the new wave of web hosting and web services which de-emphasise the role of your particular piece of hardware somewhere, and concentrate on getting your stuff out there. I like Jason Scott’s definition: […]

  12. hostgator says:

    F*ck the Cloud – Jason Scott’s brilliant (and profanity-strewn) rant about cloud computing and the things people throw away without…

  13. oyunlar says:

    The protocols and methodology are not truly open and there is a very high level of complexity underlying products that should be as simple as possible.

  14. Mike says:

    I love the green font, reminds me of the terminals in university back in the 80’s.

  15. Kuro says:

    The main reason that I’m anti-Cloud is that it seems to generate idiocy. With the Cloud, you haven’t got control over very much. It’s a pre-constructed world. As a result, users at bottom level don’t learn how to do anything. They don’t even know that they need more than 256MB on their computer because- wait, look, they have 300TB storage in the Cloud.

    As epic as it first seemed to even me, the Cloud is riddled with security holes. The internet (or at least the HTTP protocol) is, in itself, not private. Sure, you’ve got it chmodded (or maybe you pressed the large, shiny-looking Mine Only button), but anyone who gets your account (and most times this is as simple as guessing one badly-constructed password) can get in, from anywhere. With local storage, it’s near impossible to grab your files from another machine, unless you have the common sense of a drugged-up amoeba.

  16. […] As Jason Scott put so eloquently: F*** the Cloud. […]

  17. Jon says:

    Guess what, I have nothing to complain about! Great site.

    As a fell techie, fuck the cloud!

    We know better 😉

  18. Oyun says:

    The main reason that I’m anti-Cloud is that it seems to generate idiocy. With the Cloud, you haven’t got control over very much. It’s a pre-constructed world. As a result, users at bottom level don’t learn how to do anything. They don’t even know that they need more than 256MB on their computer because- wait, look, they have 300TB storage in the Cloud.

  19. […] files among computers that you own and keeps a copy in the cloud. (That sound you hear is Jason Scott grinding his teeth.) Dropbox gave me automated backups not only to Dropbox’s computers but […]

  20. […] to pay for it to be cloud computing? An answer can be found in an entertaining and emotional post: F*ck the Cloud- if you value your data then you should contract/pay for the service. TOS for free services will […]

  21. […] is also a fair argument against the Cloud. If I installed my own audio player I wouldn’t be victim to the whims of Google. But arguing […]

  22. […] I’m not here to discuss the potential pitfalls of cloud services. I’ve been there and others have done it better. I’m here to show you the way out that I took. I exported everything to Excel. I used the […]

  23. The main reason that I’m anti-Cloud is that it seems to generate idiocy. With the Cloud, you haven’t got control over very much. It’s a pre-constructed world. As a result, users at bottom level don’t learn how to do anything. They don’t even know that they need more than 256MB on their computer because- wait, look, they have 300TB storage in the Cloud.thanks

  24. ab says:

    client/server, thin client, distributed computing, application service provider, mainframe and terminal. the above names at least suggested their architecture.

    but wtf is cloud computing.

    ha. motley fool claimed “cloud computing” is gonna be the next great thing. yet the report failed to describe it other than ‘hot’ and ‘now’

    meaningless mba bullshit

  25. The main reason that I’m anti-Cloud is that it seems to generate idiocy. With the Cloud, you haven’t got control over very much. It’s a pre-constructed world. As a result, users at bottom level don’t learn how to do anything. They don’t even know that they need more than 256MB on their computer because- wait, look, they have 300TB storage in the Cloud.

  26. […] do just that. (BTW, the NYT quoted Jason Scott — who’s kind of the internet archivist du jour and doesn’t like the cloud for this very […]

  27. […] ammunition for the critics (warning: NSFW) of “the cloud”, or web-based software and data storage. This morning, […]

  28. Edward says:

    Amen!

  29. Marc says:

    I would of read this whole article, but your fucking website is so god damn horrible to look at i couldn’t view it longer than 2 min.

  30. Terry Carmen says:

    People just need the pain of “The Cloud” to be more understandable.

    When I tell a client that “The Cloud” is just marketing-speak for machines you don’t own or control but have to pay for every month, they give me a blank stare and act like I just suggested that they all join the Communist Party.

    However when I tell them that “The Cloud” is where Google lost a bunch of user documents and email, with no hope of recovery, they suddenly decide that “The Cloud” might not be so awesome after all.

    The willingness of management to jump on whatever bandwagon that happens to pass by never ceases to amaze me.

  31. […] down my own thoughts about the Cloud but Jason Scott seems to have done it for me. Read more here: ascii.textfiles.com Share […]

  32. Chris chiesa says:

    It’s a genuine pleasure-and-relief to see somebody else say, with force, conviction, and appropriate expletives, the thing I’ve been saying for years to anybody who’ll listen, which is an all too thin slice of the population. Hear, hear! A prophet may be without honor in his own country (as the old proverb goes), but you’s all right by me.

  33. jason404 says:

    I have got my sister using the cloud (Dropbox) precisely so that she does *not* lose data, like she has when she lost her iPhone, along with hundreds of photos of my toddler nephew.

    I’ve also got my father and brother using the cloud, after they have lost all their data due to hard drive failure.

    Do you really think average users back things up?

  34. Spook says:

    Bah. Using the cloud is perfectly fine. Just remember to keep multiple copies of your data around. rsync is your best friend.

  35. Agreed. Fuck the cloud. It’s only going to take one major data loss at HugeCo, Inc. before some CIO wakes up and goes “maybe paying $500k for my server infrastructure and $80k a year for someone to run it wasn’t such a bad idea after all.”

    Also – I feel similarly about “cloud security” :
    http://www.criticalassets.com/blog/?p=92

  36. An obvious problem is the very definition of what “Cloud” actually means. For example to me, a cloud means that I actually own 150 ~ 200 physical machines, with virtual machines on them which are powered on/off on demand, and on which my own apps are deployed on demand, making a flexible “cloud” of nodes that serve queries.

    The way you talk about the “cloud”, is more about Facebook, Google, Twitter, and about them storing your data.

    And yet some others may mean that the cloud is actually Amazon EC2 and its clones, where you hire computing power when you need it, then drop it when you no longer need it.

    Other than that, I largely agree with your article!

  37. Tim says:

    You may have some good points here, but:
    1. The green, font choice, and black background make the reader just rush through it before their eyes go blurry.
    2. You might have some good points here, but it so incoherent and rambling (moon laser, mars, huh?) that the average ADD reader isn’t going to get it.

  38. Mr-Copy says:

    Tim and marc, nobody gives a shit what two high functioning retards think. You would “of” done better trying to fish out the extra chromosome with a rusty hook rather than post. (ADD, rambling, huh???)

  39. Phil Wyatt says:

    The “Cloud” is nothing more than the old time-sharing concept from the 60’s and 70’s before the advent of the PC and the MAC. You had a monitor on your desk with no local storage, processing power or anything except a dial-up modem: 120 baud, 1200 baud, 4800 baud, 9600 baud (pick your era). If the mainframe hiccoughed or went south, so did all your work.

    In the 1980’s the whole strategy of the PC and the MAC workstation manufacturers was to offload processing power from the big mainframes to a local workstation, have some local storage, AND ALLOW YOU TO SAVE DATA LOCALLY! (remember those 8″ floppies?).

    Why go back to the stone-age? Give me my workstations and servers here in my office where I can control all of my data locally. Some of my servers are over 10 years old (P3’s) and they still chug along just fine thank you very much. I amortized them years ago. Sure I have some quad 4 CPU screamers, but most important is that all my resources are here next to me. I control them, not someone else.

  40. wrm says:

    You are 100% and you are also wrong.

    You see, some of us, like you, and like me, we like our shit, we care for our shit, and we think back daily about the shit we lost when we were careless about backups or whatnot.

    But I also look at the kids, who grew up in this magical world where you carry a genie in your pocket, where your have two computers of your very own at home, with computing power which would have been classified as munitions around the time of their birth.

    They lose data and photographs and shit all the time. Sometimes they have a geek around the house, who can restore some of the shit, sometimes they don’t, and they get told “shit happens”.

    And they, hell, they don’t get used to it, they’ve been used to it forever.

    And strangely enough, it’s not only the kids. I have letters dating back to when one put pen to paper and entrusted the envelope to some form of ground transport to bridge a 100 kilometer gap. I have also seen people open a letter or a hallmark type card, read it, say “oh, that’s so sweet”, and then tear it up and throw it away.

    But yes, you are right, and I want my incomplete, very first game I wrote back, damn fool tape recorder that ate it!

  41. Erwinus says:

    Internet = cloud. Stupid arguments by “cloud” companies that has only benefits, it is only a way to combine existing technologies and overhyped. Stop this cloud bullshit.

    Virtualization is not new, external storage is not new, running apps from a network is not new, hire somebody to manage your computers or network is not new etc. The only thing that is new is total interdependency (it is like leasing something but with one major difference), when there is no internet connection you cannot do anything! When you forgot to pay your bills (or you cannot pay it any longer) you can loose al your data. The difference with this ‘lease construction’ is your data, most important of all. When you loose your car, you can buy a new one or go to a railway station and take the train, data can be unique, valuable.

    It is stupid to rely on just one organisation that holds all your data, your infrastructure. When it is not there for some reason, you are unarmed. Cloud is stupid lease construction to generate continues income for companies at less costs. Not new, just a commercial joke.

  42. I have got my sister using the cloud (Dropbox) precisely so that she does *not* lose data, like she has when she lost her iPhone, along with hundreds of photos of my toddler nephew.

    I’ve also got my father and brother using the cloud, after they have lost all their data due to hard drive failure.

  43. […] the Cloud? Free yourself of networking and hardware worries, seductive. Some feel very strongly against the Cloud. I think it may be the solution for some problems but remember that a single point of control is […]

  44. Cruious says:

    I am not paying for “services” I already have. I am not going to buy into “the cloud” when it is all thats left. This whole cloud issue to me, and thin client is the death of computers for me. I wonder what everyone is doing outside.

  45. People just need the pain of “The Cloud” to be more understandable.

    When I tell a client that “The Cloud” is just marketing-speak for machines you don’t own or control but have to pay for every month, they give me a blank stare and act like I just suggested that they all join the Communist Party.

    However when I tell them that “The Cloud” is where Google lost a bunch of user documents and email, with no hope of recovery, they suddenly decide that “The Cloud” might not be so awesome after all.

    The willingness of management to jump on whatever bandwagon that happens to pass by never ceases to amaze me.

  46. […] your data is an interesting discussion. Jason Scott has written about this 3 years ago in an article I could heartily recommend to […]

  47. […] passersby, what are your thoughts? Recommended reading: Fuck the Cloud, by Jason Scott (Jan. 2009) http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1717 Eviction, or the Coming Datapocalypse, by Jason Scott (Dec. 2008) […]

  48. […] in a cloud service! Especially not a free one that does not offer restitution in case of disaster. Jason Scott said so 3.5 years ago, and Steve Wozniak also got the right idea. Use TrueCrypt or a similar […]