<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Terrible Secret of Spam</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065</link>
	<description>Jason Scott's Weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:59:02 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jason Scott</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4168</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 00:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4168</guid>
		<description>I see. No, that trick won&#039;t work; my address is in too many places and I&#039;m too high profile. I always thought that was a sketchy way to do things, anyway.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see. No, that trick won&#8217;t work; my address is in too many places and I&#8217;m too high profile. I always thought that was a sketchy way to do things, anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4167</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 20:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4167</guid>
		<description>Oh, I&#039;m sure you&#039;re doing all sorts of fancy things that I&#039;ve never heard of, having never had to run more than small internal servers. By NOSPAM trick, I just meant getting rid of all the &quot;mailto:&quot; links (or is there only one?) on the site and replacing them with &quot;email me at foo@(NOSPAM)bar.com&quot; or &quot;foo at bar dot com&quot; or some other silly-looking text thing that people can figure out but (most) bots can&#039;t. Or is doing it that way admitting defeat? ;-)
-Jesse
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re doing all sorts of fancy things that I&#8217;ve never heard of, having never had to run more than small internal servers. By NOSPAM trick, I just meant getting rid of all the &#8220;mailto:&#8221; links (or is there only one?) on the site and replacing them with &#8220;email me at foo@(NOSPAM)bar.com&#8221; or &#8220;foo at bar dot com&#8221; or some other silly-looking text thing that people can figure out but (most) bots can&#8217;t. Or is doing it that way admitting defeat? <img src='http://ascii.textfiles.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
-Jesse</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Scott</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4166</guid>
		<description>I use a number of tricks and situations to handle the incoming spam. When I say &quot;bounce&quot;, I mean that my system returns &quot;no such user&quot;. As for &quot;take it in and delete it&quot;, then that means you constantly accept all the messages, in total, which can go into many megabytes, and then delete them, which runs down the system notably. Believe me, I&#039;m doing an awful lot in many directions to handle this, and I&#039;ve minimized it, which means it&#039;s merely at apocalyptic proportions.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use a number of tricks and situations to handle the incoming spam. When I say &#8220;bounce&#8221;, I mean that my system returns &#8220;no such user&#8221;. As for &#8220;take it in and delete it&#8221;, then that means you constantly accept all the messages, in total, which can go into many megabytes, and then delete them, which runs down the system notably. Believe me, I&#8217;m doing an awful lot in many directions to handle this, and I&#8217;ve minimized it, which means it&#8217;s merely at apocalyptic proportions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4165</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 04:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4165</guid>
		<description>Out of curiosity, Jason, why don&#039;t you use a NOSPAM trick to lower your bounced email count? On that note, why do you bounce instead of silently deleting? Or at least silently delete the spam with the highest &quot;spam index?&quot; I know some people who avoid doing these things for various reasons (the bouncing emails, particularly, because of what happens should a false positive result in someone thinking you&#039;re ignoring them), but I&#039;m curious what yours are.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out of curiosity, Jason, why don&#8217;t you use a NOSPAM trick to lower your bounced email count? On that note, why do you bounce instead of silently deleting? Or at least silently delete the spam with the highest &#8220;spam index?&#8221; I know some people who avoid doing these things for various reasons (the bouncing emails, particularly, because of what happens should a false positive result in someone thinking you&#8217;re ignoring them), but I&#8217;m curious what yours are.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anonymopus</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4164</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymopus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4164</guid>
		<description>I was IT director for a public school district. Some of the more technically adept students would report teacher emails as spam to various spam blocking services. This would get our schools external IP addresses places on blacklists for weeks at a time.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was IT director for a public school district. Some of the more technically adept students would report teacher emails as spam to various spam blocking services. This would get our schools external IP addresses places on blacklists for weeks at a time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David I. Lehn</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4163</link>
		<dc:creator>David I. Lehn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4163</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.acme.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ACME Labs&lt;/a&gt; posted a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;similar story&lt;/a&gt; a few years ago on dealing with 1M mail spams per &lt;strong&gt;day&lt;/strong&gt;.  The article is a good read on the methods to deal with that volume and tradeoffs on cpu, memory, effectiveness, etc.  A bonus is the current graphs of stats for each filter.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.acme.com/" rel="nofollow">ACME Labs</a> posted a <a href="http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/" rel="nofollow">similar story</a> a few years ago on dealing with 1M mail spams per <strong>day</strong>.  The article is a good read on the methods to deal with that volume and tradeoffs on cpu, memory, effectiveness, etc.  A bonus is the current graphs of stats for each filter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4162</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4162</guid>
		<description>Wow... that sounds horrible - and explains why I couldn&#039;t find a contact email address the other day.

Maybe the part of your brain that regulates breathing can also filter out &quot;fuck&quot; in your otherwise brilliant posts -- they&#039;d be better for it, and, as another commenter pointed out, could be used in classes, etc.

Just a suggestion. Swear away if that&#039;s what you want. ;)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230; that sounds horrible &#8211; and explains why I couldn&#8217;t find a contact email address the other day.</p>
<p>Maybe the part of your brain that regulates breathing can also filter out &#8220;fuck&#8221; in your otherwise brilliant posts &#8212; they&#8217;d be better for it, and, as another commenter pointed out, could be used in classes, etc.</p>
<p>Just a suggestion. Swear away if that&#8217;s what you want. <img src='http://ascii.textfiles.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4161</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4161</guid>
		<description>cassiel, what do you think is so difficult about posting a comment here?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cassiel, what do you think is so difficult about posting a comment here?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mgroves</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4160</link>
		<dc:creator>mgroves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 17:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4160</guid>
		<description>Spam sucks, but don&#039;t hold it against legitimate advertising.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam sucks, but don&#8217;t hold it against legitimate advertising.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cassiel</title>
		<link>http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1065/comment-page-1#comment-4159</link>
		<dc:creator>cassiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ascii.textfiles.com/?p=1065#comment-4159</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile the spam problem gets even worse:

There are wanna-be-admin anti-spam kooks out there
who think they&#039;ve found the Final Ultimate Solution to the Spam
Problem (FUSSP) &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html&lt;/a&gt;
by hitting the innocent people and rejecting their mail. So thanks to
these guys you have to fight spammers and anti-spammers at the same
time. &lt;a href=&quot;http://caffeine.yi.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://caffeine.yi.org/&lt;/a&gt;

So Jason is judging the situation right: there is no FUSSP and the
sooner you realize the better.

Of course you can do much against spam, but think before you do it
and at least you should know what &quot;false positive&quot;. If you don&#039;t handle
this with care you might kill internet communication.

If any solution works you need a whole bunch of methods to prevent spam
and to filter spam.
I hope that Jason&#039;s bounces are on SMTP level, because if you accept a
mail and send it back as a regular e-mail bounce it costs you double
bandwidth and you might be abused as reversed spam relay by sending
spam to faked sender addresses.

About form spam: often forms are checked by spammers if they can be
abused for spam relaying, because the PHP mail command is vulnerable.
But they post things anyway and there must be even individual spammers
trying to abuse even handwritten scripts. If you don&#039;t program with
care and the possibility of abuse in your mind, you&#039;re lost.
Fortunately with forms the power is on your (server) side.

So it&#039;s a constant never ending fight. There are two major rules for me:
- avoid false positives, but if they can occur take care of them
- avoid end-of-pipe solutions, fight the cause by not the symptom

BTW it&#039;s really difficult to post a comment here.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile the spam problem gets even worse:</p>
<p>There are wanna-be-admin anti-spam kooks out there<br />
who think they&#8217;ve found the Final Ultimate Solution to the Spam<br />
Problem (FUSSP) <a href="http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html</a><br />
by hitting the innocent people and rejecting their mail. So thanks to<br />
these guys you have to fight spammers and anti-spammers at the same<br />
time. <a href="http://caffeine.yi.org/" rel="nofollow">http://caffeine.yi.org/</a></p>
<p>So Jason is judging the situation right: there is no FUSSP and the<br />
sooner you realize the better.</p>
<p>Of course you can do much against spam, but think before you do it<br />
and at least you should know what &#8220;false positive&#8221;. If you don&#8217;t handle<br />
this with care you might kill internet communication.</p>
<p>If any solution works you need a whole bunch of methods to prevent spam<br />
and to filter spam.<br />
I hope that Jason&#8217;s bounces are on SMTP level, because if you accept a<br />
mail and send it back as a regular e-mail bounce it costs you double<br />
bandwidth and you might be abused as reversed spam relay by sending<br />
spam to faked sender addresses.</p>
<p>About form spam: often forms are checked by spammers if they can be<br />
abused for spam relaying, because the PHP mail command is vulnerable.<br />
But they post things anyway and there must be even individual spammers<br />
trying to abuse even handwritten scripts. If you don&#8217;t program with<br />
care and the possibility of abuse in your mind, you&#8217;re lost.<br />
Fortunately with forms the power is on your (server) side.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s a constant never ending fight. There are two major rules for me:<br />
- avoid false positives, but if they can occur take care of them<br />
- avoid end-of-pipe solutions, fight the cause by not the symptom</p>
<p>BTW it&#8217;s really difficult to post a comment here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
